I was reading through some of the NODA correspondence and realised that we are supposed to display the NODA logo on our posters and programmes

I looked at their website and some newsletters and realised how pathetic their logo is and how poor the quality is:

[img]http://www.noda.org.uk/nodaimages/crest.gif[/img]

The one above is off their website and quality is poor, come on NODA redesign your logo and give us something decent or I won't be displaying it anywhere!

Anyone got a better version?????? better than NODA themselves????

I have to agree the NODA crest looks tired and dismal and the quality is very poor.

We spend a lot of time designing our posters at our society and it seems a shame to spoil them. I think it is something they should improve!

We'll see, maybe someone from NODA will see this?

Are you complaining about the crest itself, or just the quality of the version provided off our website? If the latter, that is easy to solve. If the former, well obviously the crest has a long and venerable history, and this is the first time anyone has complained.

Mark Pemberton
Chief Executive, NODA

Mark,
I think it is safe to assume that the complaint is about the quality of the crest presented on the web site, and in the Noda artwork packs (which have the quality of poor photocopies).

If you can do something about either, then more power to your elbow!

Mark,

Every version of the NODA Crest I have ever seen has been a "poor" copy, I was reviewing the rules of the NODA poster competitions which stipulate you must display the NODA crest, I was going to do this but my graphic designer said the quality of the image was extremely poor against the hard work that has gone into the poster.

As for history then maybe it's time history was re-written, I like the logo on the NODA letterhead (I have used this on my poster).

I too have seen the enlarged photocopied version of the logo sent out in artwork packs, the quality of this is poor as well.

I would recommend the following:

The Crest is professionally re-scanned to a high resolution from the original pen and paper artwork from where it was created (This cannot be done by an amateur, it needs the professional re-touching facilities)

I propose a little colour or shading is added to the image to give it a more modern feel but retain it's overall appearance

The Crest could be re-designed maybe as part of a countrywide competition, it's good publicity!

I do think it's something that needs attention and it is not only the website version, it's all versions of the Crest.

Thanks for addressing Terry's concerns.

I have made a valiant attempt to re-engineer the NODA Crest

Its a big one because it is high resolution

Click here to view

Well done Sy, that looks great. Does Mark approve though?

Martin did something similar with the logo Mark sent us for the SJ poster. We've made it all gold, but textured it so that it looks 'rounded out' with sort of dark shadow. Looks good on the black background of our poster.

A copy of the poster is at our website if you follow the section on "News" and the poster link is in the June 2003 news item. The logo is at the bottom, although I'm sure you'll find it!

Our problem is that no-one knows the whereabouts of the original drawing, and it didn't turn up during our move. I think what I will have to do is get our designer here in Peterborough to do a new version, taking account of your comments, and have a print and website version available on our website.

I'm not sure what is meant by the "enlarged photocopied version". If people need a paper copy, we send them a properly printed version which has three sizes on one page.

I think some of my comments may have sounded a little harsh but they were not intended that way. We all like positive action and I am really pleased that Mark has taken our comments on board and will see if there is anything that he can do.

NODA is a well recognised symbol of Amateur Drama and we want to keep it looking it's best!

The problem is that anything that has been printed onto a paper surface loses definition in the process due to the spread of the ink into the surface of the paper. Each time this 'original' is used for repro onto other printed matter the problem is magnified, especially if the image is enlarged.

The only really acceptable 'hard copy' original for repro purposes is a bromide, which is effectively a photograph of the original image.

However, in these days of digital images, repro from hard copy is really obsolete.

What we really need is for each member group to be sent a quality copy of the NODA crest on a CD-ROM, in a selection of colours to fit in with various coloured backgrounds, with instructions of how and where to use it.

I suggest multiple formats for the images as well

.JPEG - Most people can use this format, preferably uncompressed (no quality loss)
.TIFF - Most Graphic Designers and Newspapers use this format, it's a good standard
.PSD - Photoshop Layered Format - Again a good standard format to use

To add to the helpful comments here, please supply the logo without a background - Okay I know thats not poss with a jpeg - but it is with most others. It took me ages to take out the white rectangle background on the supplied logo so that it wouldn't look like a dogs dinner on a full colour poster
Good luck with the redraw Mark, can't wait to see the results

That's a very valid point Martin, images with backgrounds are a real pain!

If it is a PSD (Photoshop) format you can just delete the background layer but for other people it may be a good idea to provide a high quality uncompressed GIF as well with a
transparent background.

Most people and webmasters that need their images compressing should already have a way of doing that

Incidentally, what is the regulation on putting the NODA crest on our websites?

On the one hand, all member groups should surely put the logo on their site in the same way they do on the programmes and posters, but on the other hand I would assume it's copyrighted? And I know of someone who got in big trouble for using a copyrighted logo of a society they were a member of (nothing to do with amateur theatre by the way) on their site.

Just one to think about.

The crest belongs to you, the NODA members, so can be used on posters, websites etc. at will. The NODA logo, however, is specific to NODA and should not be used. We recommend that in relation to programmes you use the crest followed by wording "affiliated to the National Operatic and Dramatic Association". For websites, use the crest and link it to our website at www.noda.org.uk. Do not use www.noda.co.uk. This is not an official site and we are trying to get it shut down.

Thats funny.......

noda.co.uk automatically forwards onto noda.org.uk

I won't be using the crest to link until a new version is done and I won't be linking to NODA unless they provide a reciprocal link.

I am sorry but that's the rule, I only link sites that link me and I am sure everyone else is the same.......

NODA needs to provide a link to me.....

Simon - when you say "I only link sites that link me" do you mean the amdram.co.uk site? In which case you are already linked from the NODA site, and there is a link to NODA on amdram.co.uk as we are a sponsor.

Mark,

No, I am talking about Adlington Music and Arts Society, I am reluctant to link to NODA when they don't have a link back to my site.

Why should I or any other Webmaster send our traffic to NODA if they are not going to send any back?

It's a general rule for all webmasters, you only link in return for a reciprocal!

I'm with Simon here on a couple of points. While I don't mind using the NODA crest on a programme/poster (actually I do because you're forced to for the wrong reasons) See here (click on the link on this page to view the poster) But I really do object to writing "affiilated to NODA etc, etc" on there as well. After all programmes/posters get cluttered enough with the required stuff crowding the artwork without adding to it.

In fact the only reason it's on there is to be eligible to be considered in the NODA Poster competition (cue cynical sigh!!!) Please don't let me get started on the regional awards for productions and the "impartial judging" ha ha ha!!! (I feel able to make that statement as I've won an award but still think the process is flawed and is, well pants! sorry Mark)

My personal opinion here is that why must I advertise NODA after paying a healthy fee to them? Do I get advertising on their site? Hmm let me see NO!

As for websites - I'm with Simon I don't mind having recriprocal links to sites but nothing's for free. After all if I'm trying to generate show income - why should I devalue my paying sponsors by adding links to my website for people who don't pay

However if NODA were prepared to host links, place a small site ad for an upcoming show and publish the show reviews online (rather than wait 4 - 6 months to see reviews if the reviewer can be arsed to write one even after getting free tickets and hospitality) then I could see justification in placing NODA corporate logos everywhere

BUT NOT BEFORE

Sorry Mark, But I feel that NODA has a long way to go to get back in touch with groups other than those putting on tired old G&S and other traditional worn-out musicals.

Amdram.co.uk would be more than happy to host any NODA reviews and do the work of setting up pages etc if NODA wanted. I can copy type pretty quickly and wouldn't mind having a NODA section within amdram.co.uk.

Contact me Mark if this is of interest and we can chat about format etc.

Jane

I am quite distressed at the cynical tone that is coming through this forum.

Firstly, no-one is forcing societies to use the NODA crest. It is entirely at your discretion. Yes, it is a requirement if you want to be considered for the poster and programme competition, but again, it is entirely up to the society whether it wants to enter its poster or programme.

Secondly, affiliated societies are already able to have a link from the NODA website. All you have to do is let us know you want a link. Then you will be added to the appropriate Area website. Adlington Music and Arts Society already has a link.

Some Areas already publish the show reports on line. All Areas are being encouraged to do this.

I will have to think about the implications of publishing the show reviews on amdram. I think it unlikely as otherwise there is a risk of duplication.

Please note that 40% of our members are drama groups. We work our hardest to ensure that everyone who requires our services has equal access and is treated quickly and efficiently. We have a small staff who work hard for you, the membership. We also of course rely on our 180 volunteers. It is volunteers such as yourselves who attend the shows and write ther show reports. If any of them is proving less than efficient in providing show reportds for your Area magazine, please take this up at Area level.

It's not coming from 'the forum', it's coming from individuals who are entitled to their opinions. I have no experience of NODA in any way shape or form so would refrain from any praise or critisism but if other have had problems it's not wrong for them to air their grievences here along with those postings that support the role your organisation provides. The really good thing is that 'the forum' provides you with the vehicle to address any critisisms or misconceptions directly.

Power to 'the forum'!

I agree with you Ryano but in the same breath feel that things are a bit lop sided around the forum.

If its ok for a moderator to take an agressive stance or the boss to advertise amdram services but its not ok for the rest of us to do so does that not raise concerns?

Constructive critisism is always worth while along with healthy debate, except when people feel targetted and we do not live by our own rules.

I can't say I've noticed the moderators being overly aggressive. I've had a bit of a disagreement with Simon in the past but that was mostly down to me rather than him. As for the boss advertising the services of Amdram, well there's no conradiction there as this forum is merely a part of the whole Amdram empire.

Having said that, I agree with you about healthy debate. Now where's Gordon?

I already have the crest set up as a link back to NODA on each noda review page on Cuddington Players website, plus a standard text link on our Links page to both NODA HQ and NODA Southern Area. We then have a reciprocal link back from NODA Southern Area page. This seems fine.

Yes, I admit, I do have a link from the NODA North West site but............

I think they would be better coming from the main location....

Surely it would be better to centralise NODA and have a database of groups and links to their sites on the main site.

noda.org.uk or noda.co.uk

I don't particularly find the North West site easy to navigate but as you quite rightly point out I do have a link to my site on there and will be adding a reciprocal on my next update.

I would like a link from noda.org.uk.......... please?

The problem with centralising links is that we have over 2300 affiliated societies. Let's say 75% have a website; that's 1725 links in total. How do we organise all those links into a logical and easy-to-use list? The obvious way is to break them down by Area. And as each Area has its own website, the logical thing to do is to make each Area responsible for hosting links to societies in that Area. Otherwise we are duplicating information. And part of NODA's strength is that much of its activity is devolved regionally, so that there is direct contact with the grassroots.

Oh, and I forgot to say please please please do not link to 'noda.co.uk'. I know it looks like a mirror image of the NODA website, but we don't know why it does this. The site is based in Germany and does not anser our emails. And we do not own this domain name. So please only ever use 'noda.org.uk'.

After reading all the above, I have to agree with Mark - they do seem to be using the best way.

Simon, why not make your NODA link to the local area page rather than the home page?

And Mark, have you tried buying noda.co.uk from the other people? Sure would make life simpler!

Probably a little difficult if they don't answer Mark's e-mails!

I just want to get a few things straight here:

1) I am not having a go at anyone!
2) Any criticisms I have are usually my own opinion and not that of Amdram.co.uk or my own Society

Ok, I just wanted to make sure that was clear!

Here goes my points
1) 2000 records can be added to a searchable database with extreme ease and it would be very easy to search, Amdram.co.uk already does that with the production database etc.
2) Links would be far better handled from one central location so that they can be maintained easier and people can search other areas easily.
3) There is no consistency across the local devolved sites, some don't have domains and they are all structured differently which makes this solution even more ideal.
4) The regional sites can link into the master database with relative ease.
5) noda.co.uk automatically redirects to noda.org.uk, it looks the same because it is the same, it does not matter who owns the domain. (admittedly they could change the redirect, however unlikely)

My suggestions are aimed at modernising NODA and giving it a more structured and organised web presence.

WHY???

Amdram societies are developing their online capabilities, many sites displaying better facilities and information than there professional counterparts, sites are getting better across the board.

I am sure that Amdram.co.uk could host a database of NODA affiliated sites that was linked from all the NODA regional sites an the NODA main site. It's worth asking Jane!

Surely as NODA has a website they could host the database on their site?

Looking at the registration dates on the domain names noda.co.uk/org.uk i would approach nominet with regards the first and see if they could help.

Re-drawn high resolution versions of the NODA Crest can now be found on the Members Area of the NODA website.

Thank you Mark!

Any chance of getting the original PSD?

Anyway, let me see who has the NODA password? I really don't know!

Simon

What's a PSD?

A PSD is the Photoshop format that most Graphic Designers will finalise the image in.

However having visited the NODA site, the quality of the images is superb and this is not required.

Thanks for sorting this one Mark