In the Amateur Drama Websites topic there's a bit of discussion about money collection, and Jane has some thoughts about a centralised credit card payment scheme in the Miscellaneous section. But has anybody used the debit card payment systems that are appearing? The ones I've found are NoChex and Yahoo! PayDirect (PayPal doesn't seem to be a sensible option at present for UK payments).

The charging methods for NoChex and PayDirect are slightly different, but both force anyone making a payment to have an account with them, which can take several days to set up. Nobody's going to bother, just to buy a couple of theatre tickets. What's needed is a simple system where you can just enter a Switch card number, the same way you do for buying something on 'proper' e-commerce sites, and which doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Paul
www.newburytheatre.co.uk

The problem as I see it with these sorts of accounts is that the person buying the tickets would have to pay a fee to be able to pay for them. I nearly tried Nochex and found that it would cost me 99p to put some money into the account and then another 99p to transfer it the other end. Too expensive for a couple of theatre tickets.

My thoughts revolve around amdram.co.uk acting as the central ticket "agency", and the group/amdram bearing the costs.

I did some looking into this a while ago and the costs then were:

?58.75 one off set up fee
?170.38 yearly charge
4.5% cashing fee

The 4.5% would be charged to the group who's tickets were sold, eg for a pair of ?5.00 tickets they would receive ?9.55 of the money.

Each group would pay a yearly charge to use the system which would hopefully cover the yearly charge and any postage/cheque fees incured by amdram.co.uk.

We would set the charge as low as possible to cover the fees and perhaps a higher charge for groups performing a higher number of performances than others. Something like one fee for under 5 performances and another for over 5 performances.

The ticket sales could then be linked into the production database and groups could advertise amdram.co.uk as a way of getting credit card sales.

What do people think?

Jane

I think I'd prefer to see a "per performance" charge - if the demand's there for the system then it should be pennies.

You'd need to tread carefully on your refund policy I think - I know a number of etailers who've been stung by that one.


thoughts so far :-)

Ged
Liverpool Network Theatre Group
http://www.networktheatre.org.uk/

Hi Ged

Not sure what you mean about a refund policy. If you mean a refund on tickets, that would be up to the group and they would be able to refund by cheque.

Jane

I'm thinking the problem arises when you try to have money recredited to the debited credit card - if you're going to refund by cheque then that does remove that obstacle. Of course you've then taken a hit on the admin fees, but that's going to happen whatever...

no really I think it's a great idea with bags of potential, I'm just thinking aloud here...

Ged

I have thougt about this idea in the past as well for our web site.

The problem wasn't with the costs (partly because I am a web master for a number of sites so could off set against everyone) but more with the fact that we allocate seats on a seat booking system and not a ticket booking system.

We allow people to "ring" in and select the seats that are available for the amount of seats they require.

To do this for us would require some ingenius database programming (No problem for me) The problem would be for whoever runs the box office, they would have to have access to the same database so that tickets don't get duplicated. No problem except not everyone has access to the internet, and one person who runs box office (we have volunteers who do this on a rotation system) doesn;t have thi so we would not be able to offer this once every now and again.

the only way I can see "by seat" (choice based booking) working if if all sales are made through a single database. That really means a single location for the database (we're not talking about distributed WAN databases here are we?)

Cheapest and easiest way to do that would be over the Internet - SQL / ASP job depending on the talent available? A single website, you'd need to log on to buy tickets, that way all your agents would be using the same dataset.

Can't see how else you'd do it.


Ged

That's more or less what I had in mind - but I do take the point that Jon makes about ticket seats. The only way round that one would be that tickets purchased via amdram.co.uk would be allocated by the group and unknown to the purchaser if you see what I mean. The request for tickets could be sent from amdram.co.uk to the group and then the group allocate the next available tickets. That would solve that one

Jane

OK,

if the customer is going to be able to come onto the website and choose their seat then the database on the website is going to have to co-ordinate all ticket sales.

The website becomes the box office, anyone else selling tickets becomes an agent. Realistically you can't have people selling seats unless they can get to the website.

With most people on dialups still I see a problem with that one...

Ged

No actually I had it in mind the other way round - amdram.co.uk acting as the agent and not giving the seat number.

It would work something like this:

Someone in the group would need access to the internet - should be viable, otherwise they wouldn't know about amdram.co.uk

They have joined the "syndicate" and let amdram.co.uk know the production and ticket details. A link is added to their production details in the database etc.

A customer contacts amdram.co.uk requesting tickets. The correct number of tickets (no seat numbers) are sold via amdram.co.uk who takes the money. The group are advised by amdram.co.uk by email that x number of tickets have been sold.

Once all the tickets are sold (the group MUST advised amdram.co.uk when all are sold) or the production has come and gone, amdram.co.uk forwards all receipts (less any agreed charges) to the group.

How does that sound to everyone?

Jane

I think you hit the nail on the head their Jane!

Hi Jane

I think using Amdram as a ticket agent is a brilliant idea! It would work really well for the group that I belong to, ATG, as we do not have a seat number system, all seats are set round tables, music hall-style. It would also be helpful as when I've been doing box office I always get a few requests to pay by credit card which always strikes me as strange because they are generally calling me on my mobile while I'm at rehearsals! Amdram has already proved a useful site for ATG as in the 2 months we have been in your listings we have already gained one new member who found our details here! If you manage to get it up and running ATG would love to be part of it.

Louise Canfield
Publicity Officer
ATG

Hi Louise

Glad to hear that amdram.co.uk has helped you

The main thing here is to get enough people committed to get it up and running.

How much would people be prepared to pay per year for the facility?

How does ?5 for one or two shows per year

?7.50 for three, four or five shows per year

?10 for six or more shows per year

Sound?

The main thing is that amdram.co.uk can't afford to subsidise this one (other than covering the set up fee and running it for nothing) - it would have to be self financing on the standing charge fee.

Jane

Jane,

Those figures sound fine to me!

You need to cater for everyone, big and small and as we only do 2 shows in a year then we don't want to be paying too much!

So the way you have it there looks good to me!, it might be worth trying to gauge interest before you commit yourself!

I gather you are already reasonably happy with how you can integrate this into the existing amdram site?

I know you said via the production database but are you happy with how it will work from there?

OK that works

we'd be in for one or two shows in the first instance, take it from there as we get used to the system.

Of course what we'd have to do then is plug amdram.co.uk as the agent....

Simon

I'm more or less happy with how it would be integrated into the existing site, but I don't want to do too much until I know that people are interested in this.

As I said, the main thing is to ensure that enough groups are committed before I commit amdram.co.uk.

Jane

I think I could get the Lucilla Committee to join the proposed scheme if costs were low enough!

Hi Jane

I think it would be something our group might be interested in.. as Ged said, if the costs are low enough..

Okay.

This seems to be popular. I have created a new page with full details and examples and asking people to complete a survey so we can see how many groups are actually interested. The form can be found here - Credit Card Survey

Please have a look and if your group is interested complete the survey - you are not committing yourself or your group at this stage.

Cheers

Jane

This would be very useful to us as we are currently accepting orders online for shows but are unable to take payment yet.

What would also be useful is the ability to use the service transparently, i.e without leaving our site. Obviously with credits to amdram.co.uk on the page.

I think you could do that by using frames and simply framing the amdram page within your layout.

You have a very good layout at the Purple Theatre company so you could probably do this very easily.

Keep up the good work

Regards

I would have no problems with a link being on your site as well providing it would work within the frame work of WorldPay - and as you say a credit to amdram.co.uk.

However, I have only had 9 replies so far - not enough to make it financially viable to run

We're not allowed to sell our own tickets so we can't become a member - but I think it's a great idea and wish it every success. If my situation changes though.....

From the way all this discussion is going - I think I'm lucky to have to let the theatre box office sell all my tickets at a 10% commission - I guess they've earned it!!

I'll be less critical of charges in the future. My poor little directors brain can't even make sense of half of the stuff on this discussion thread!

The South London Theatre would possibly be interested in this, Jane. We had looked at credit card payment facilities both online and in person, but the costs had been far too prohibitive for us, but this may be a way around half the problem, ie. the online side.

Would have to break it to the Box Office Manager though ....

QUOTE (amdram @ Jan 9 2003, 10:44 PM)

However, I have only had 9 replies so far - not enough to make it financially viable to run

Jane

I have hopefully forwarded some information about this to all the groups that use the Compass in Ickenham, so we may be able to generate some more interest.

Keep spreading the word!

This is one way of bringing Amdram into line with professional theatre and the modern requirements of the customer.

Plastic is a very powerful spending medium, I should know...........

granny sucking eggs etc but are you putting it the newsletter Jane?

It was in last weeks and it will be in today's as well!!!

I think it's a great idea. I have an email list of about 200 groups that I email for a drama festival that our group hosts each year so I hope you dont mind. I will email them with the idea and pass them your way.

Hope this one works out.

One Question. We have 2 groups. 1 Adult and One Youth. Would you see the system working with us having to register the 2 groups as one or would we have to register each group?

Ell

[URL=http://www.dramagroup.co.uk]Sarisbury Theatre Companies[/URL]

No I don't mind people spreading the word - at the moment there is not enough interest to make this financially viable

I haven't made any decisions about things like one group or two, but providing we can cover the costs, we will do all we can to make it as cheap as possible for people.

The initial interest form can be found [URL=http://www.amdram.co.uk/creditcards.htm]here[/URL].

Jane