Hi,
As I understand it [which ain't very much], a premises which puts on a review or other entertainment which uses songs from various sources (as opposed to putting on a specific show) can apply to the Performing Rights Society and pay a general royalty into the PRS coffers which then gets distributed amongst copyright holders according to some general formula about the number of times songs are sung.

From a payers viewpoint, how does this work? Is it a "per event" payment, or a "premises licence"? How much would it be for the average village hall?
Is there any different treatment for different sorts of event (cabaret, music hall, review, pantomime, etc.)?

Thanks in advance for responses,

D.S. Warner

see http://www.ppluk.com/

re my last, I wouldnt bother getting a licence though unless forced to! whos to know??

PPLUK (previous posts from Litoralis) covers recorded music - which may be used in theatre (dancing to a record, or playing a record as sound track), but my original question was more about live performances of copyrighted songs.

Will anybody in the Amdram world admit to paying fees to the PRS? If so, how much? If not, why not?

Have you tried looking on the PRS Web Site?

I'm feeling like a stern uncle at the moment - yes people do get caught regularly for not having the proper licence - so I could never advise you all to risk not applying for the proper licence.

In addition, there is a moral argument - why should you prevent the hard working song writer from receiving what is due to him or her?

OK - a song is a "work" which, if original, will be protected by the copyright rules. The rules state that you cannot copy or perform the work in public without permission. For the purposes of the copyright rules, the lyric is separate from the melody.

A lot of song writers allow an umbrella organisation to grant permission for performances on their behalf. This cuts out a lot of red tape, trying to track down the owner of the copyright for each song. One collection society the Performing Rights Society issues these type of licences. Their web site is useful, and I have always found them to be very helpful.

They grant all sorts of different types of licences - some on an annual basis, and some per event. A large scale musical (using pre-existing songs) would be licenced per performance. For a large scale venue, royalties could amount to 3 - 5% of box office, although for smaller events, other charging rates would apply. Contact the PRS in good time to make sure they are able to grant the correct licence for all the music that you wish to perform.

PPLUK is a separate organisation that deals with royalty collection for use of recorded music.

More details - the links for both organisations appear below.
The Methuen Amateur Theatre Handbook also has guidance - buy a copy now!!!!

Thanks for the above.

I've crawled all over the PRS site, and I can't find an exact answer to my question about costs. They quote events with Live Music in pubs (with and without admission charges) and they quote events in clubs (only without admission charges).
Where does a village hall without a bar fit into that spectrum?

Then there's the scale of charges, which seems to be for a live music event regardless of the number of songs. Lets say the village hall puts on a cabaret with three G&S songs (out of copyright) and one song from Noel Coward (in copyright). As far as I can deduce from the PRS site, the fee is the same as it would be for a whole evening of songs from the 1990's. (And the fees are devided between Paul McCartney, Andrew Lloyd Webber and Liam Gallagher.)
Ignore the implications about the equity of this situation: are my basic deductions correct (that it is one fee regardless of number of songs?) For an event charging admission, would I be correct in assuming that the PRS would levy 3% of the gross receipts regardless of the song content?

D.S. Warner

The PRS has various schemes for different uses of their member's music, and the rights involved in the theatre world are complicated because of the diversity of opportunities on offer. You may be able to negotiate a flat fee for a single song, rather than a percentage of the box office. It will do no harm to call their very helpful help line - especially if you have an idea of the scale of the event. Are you a charity or community group? Ask if any discounts apply!

Keith

We have just paid our performing rights fee for our recent pantomime. This is classes by the PRS as Variety and therfore charge 2% of gross takings.

New to the site and having just done battle with a PRS return for the first time I would suggest talk to them, they have been extremely helpful in dealing with what is a intimidating system when first seen.

Regarding panto/reviews talk to the PRS early and definitely before the show, fees are normally related to the expected box office receipts. However pre-registering your show allows discounts based on the duration of any copyright material as a percentage of the total show runtime.

Another item to consider, if your group does not control the venue at all times, it is the owner of the venue (not the performers) who is responsible for PRS payments.

Finally the PRS do have "inspectors" who visit venues of all types without prior arrangement to monitor the use of the venue.

I forgot to ask our producer last night, whether he is sorting out the performing rights for the entire show, or if we each have to do so for our items. So I thought, I'd have a look see who we have to apply to, but I'm totally confused.

I've taken a look at Performing Rights Society Website but this seems to be only musical numbers, whereas I plan to do sketches.

Can't find any details of who to apply to regarding the Victoria Wood Monolgue. And the Noel Coward sketch may possibly be Dr Jan van Loewen Ltd, but I can't find any contact details.

Help please.

Yes, the PRS is only for music.

Presumably, you have a legal, published copy of the Victoria Wood monologue, which therefore has a publisher's name on it [Methuen, I expect], which is the place to start... although if it is Methuen, I don't think that they handle the performance rights (but they ought to know who does!)

Samuel French handle part (but I don't think all) of Noel Coward's catalogue. Try them.

Thank you Stuart. I've now sent emails to both Methuen and Samuel French, so shall wait to hear.

This is a guess, but 5 mins with google found this link

(searched for "Victoria Wood" "Theatrical agent")

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...857765559&itm=6

whcih suggests VW's agent is a chap called Richard Stone

The Richard Stone Partnership
Richard Stone Partnership
2 Henrietta Street
London, WC2E 8PS

Telephone
020 7497 0849
Facsimilie
020 7497 0869

Email
Vivienne Clore
vclore@richstonepart.co.uk
Cheryl Hayes
chayes@richstonepart.co.uk
Susan Williams
swilliams@richstonepart.co.uk

Just to let anyone else know that Richard Stone is no longer Victoria Wood's agent.

For rights applications, you now need to contact:-
Philip McIntyre Promotions Ltd
35 Soho Square
London
W1D 3QX
tel 020 74392270
fax 020 74392280
email adele@mcintyre-ents.com

We seem to have gone off track re; Performing Rights.
In a dramatic production if you use music which is not 'heard' by or performed by the characters then you get this for a lump sum per week. You need to supply details to PRS on their form. If the characters 'hear' or perform the music you need to get permission to use the music BEFORE the performance. Usually if you write to PRS giving details they can get you the rights but you then pay up v quickly for this use. If you are doing a panto or other variety type show then you let PRS know in advance what music you want to use and how long it is as well as how long the show runs and apply for a lower rate. The rate is 2% of net box office if you don't apply to use the music prior to performance. If you do apply prior to the show then they look at the music 'time' as a percentage of the total play time and apply a sliding scale. Our panto usually comes out at 0.5%. On ?36,000 thats a lot of money!

That must be Gross rather than Net box office take?
Well 1500 may be a lot, even so, you still have ?34,500 to play with!
That?s $AUD 83,862 - not a bad haul of gold bricks, for a community theatre!
If you did a Musical here you are charged the performing rights fee &/or up to 16% of gross take!
So you are getting off quite nicely Boris, considering ?this is what it?s all about!?

The best I can offer is that a village hall by the very nature of its normal activities should hold a PRS licence and collect returns from hires.

One we use does precisely that. But the PPL is down to the group, not the premises.

I agree the PRS site used to be very confusing but a telephone call either assisted navigation or provided the answer. It was similar for PPL but now both sites are much better.

Annual group licences for both are quite manageable and should be considered if you do a reasonable amount of these productions.

For a recent show using short interludes etc we just bought PPL on a time basis for about ?10 for 2 performances. It's really not as draconian as everyone makes it out to be and the staff at both can be quite understanding of individual problems.

I think they are pleased you are making the approach voluntarily, especially in this download and diseminate society in which we live today.

Yes Joe it is a lot of money but we do have the 3rd oldest Provincial theatre (1782) to maintain by our own efforts!