Following a number of heated discussions about the quality of show reviews , would people out there be prepared to review other peoples shows?

Obviously you'd pay your own travel costs etc although I guess the host group would provide tickets

I'm thinking that we have technical to judge technical, performers/ directors to judge the artistic side.

It might even be preferable if people registered a preference to review dram or musicals (or both)

I guess if we generate enough interest Jane could put some form of register on the main site???

I'd suggest that each review was to an agreed format so as to make different reviews of different genres by different people more comparable

I'll kick off.

I'd do Surrey S/W London Berks area as technical preferring musicals

I'd def do kent/south east london musicals.

What a geat idea Martin,We already have NODA reps but I always think the more reviews the better!! (then you can pick the best one to show people!!)

I'd like to add that I certainly don't want to take over from Noda reviews, but give more details reviewing into certain areas. Even targeting areas which groups feel they could improve on and helping out...

I'm game. Musical / Comedy / Panto is more area...

I got loads of experience Mime and Fight Co-ording.

Berkshire is my haunt.

Well I'm also south east london, possibly into bits of surrey & kent, but I don't always have access to a car (due to not being able to drive one!)... When I can, I'd be more than happy to join in with this. Oh, preferences: likes a bit of everything but as a rule the darker the better. Mostly actor but one who always includes technical aspects in articles/reviews for her own theatre (even if some of the terms may not be correct!).

Looking cool

Hopefully we'd be able to send 1 tekkie and 1 artisc person - NOT to replace Noda.

It's amaizing what you spot in your own speciality which hopefully can be given as a positive crit....

I would be quite happy to review in Leicestershire but a little word of caution for potential reviewers. Our local press have got this off to a fine art now which we are very grateful for. Not all local shows are good but they manage to crit them without being too negative. Just remember we none of us get paid...

Oh I'm a firm believer in positive crits with notes where they could improve - wouldn't want to knock anyone however bad or good

We find it VERY difficult to get the local press interested so any reviews would be welcome, artistic or techie (we must think of a better description - some of our techies are VERY artistic!).....

Helen, well done, you're through the 100 barrier. Hoorah!

Yeah I'm up for this - prefer Musicals - based in Middlesex/Essex/Hertfordshire Borders (M25 North)

Great idea!

I can cover most of Lancashire/West Yorkshire...

Jon

I find this a difficult concept to get to grips with. Now I go to see plays and I know what I like and what I don't. However, I'm no expert so any opinion I have is purely personel. If I think the lead was a bit lethagic it may be my lack of ubderstanding of the role rather than the standard of the performance. If I think the stage looked a little dark, it may be the director and lighting designer have decided to give the story a more sinister setting than I'd barginned for. Do we take into account that these shows are not West End standard and, in most cases small budgets.

So my question is.....

What are we supposed to be reviewing. If we are to mimic the local press, then to my experience, we just give a role call of the cast members and a brief outline of the story. If we are to be critical, we may be putting a performance down because of our own failing rather than the shows. If we are to just highlight what's good then we are just patting ourselves on the back.

Perhaps I need to see an example of an 'audience' review. I do think it sounds like a good idea in principle but I'm not sure about the finer points. I know a lot of people who use the forum have much more experience than I and can therefore trust themselves to hit the right balance but I know plenty of people that can't discuss a play without finding something to pick holes in.

Having said all that, I happy to watch plays in the South East. I am going to see Hamp at the South London Theatre and I'm really looking forward to that.

Btw, I don't think reviewers should get comp tickets, most groups are struggling and need all the income they can get.

I'd be willing to cover the Midlands. My only reservation is seeing it from an unbiased perspective.

For example, if go to see a show that I have seen before or performed in, I tend to compare the shows. If I see a show I haven't seen (if that makes sense!) then I tend to place people in my own society in the roles and then compare!

I had to see a version of "Music Man" to report back to Committee to decide if we could do it. It was extremely difficult to report in a non-judgmental manner. As it happens it wasn't bad but I knew we could do it better.

Still, time will tell - there's still six weeks to curtain up.

I reviewed plays and shows for the local and regional papers for several years.

My critique was always honest, if it was disallowed word, I would say it was disallowed word, but not in those words.

Many-a-director discussed my reviews after and, in general, admitted the fact.

But for me to give a 'down' critique it had to be really bad, most productions had many good points to concentrate on.

I found that if I praised a production which was bad the readers saw through the dishonesty of the review and all subsiquent reviews were worthless.

Even if it was a 'down' critique I would always qualify this with the enjoyment of the whole evening certainly outweighing sitting at home watching soaps etc. (or words to that effect)

Most pratitioners in the local amdram circles respected my reviews and took on my critiques and used them to improve future performances.

As I photographed these productions as well (usually in the dress rehearsal stage) even if the written critique was not stunning they looked good in pictorial form (even if I say so myself).

So what I'm saying is, be honest. The reader deserves it, demands it, and the production that is told it's good when it ain't is never going to get better because complacency does set in.

Brutal I know, but honest.

If we were all reviewing each other's productions, wouldn't we get a Eurovision song contest type scenario where good reviews were dished out in return for a previous good review? Or vice versa perhaps? But then again, no-one involved in amdram would be that bitchy, would they? ;-) Or could we all stay objective and be honest about a bad production, even though someone from the group you're watching gave your last production a glowing review?

Alex
The Arcadia Players
http://www.communigate.co.uk/brad/arcadiaplayers

Okay this looks promising but some good points have been raised

Ryano I right behind your point of view and have the same misgivings about myself. This is how I see it working (ish)

Each reviewer is given a format of things to look out for - more an aid memoir, but also useful in compiling the final review so that there is a common "standard" between different reviewers.


"If I think the stage looked a little dark, it may be the director and lighting designer have decided to give the story a more sinister setting than I'd bargained for. Do we take into account that these shows are not West End standard and, in most cases small budgets."

In answer to that as a reviewer I'd want to meet the director and lighting guy etc afterwards to discuss the show and there ideas - this is where they reveal their concepts and you get to tell them whether they worked or not.

I'd never put anything in a review that I wasn't prepared to tell the group to their face.

For budget thing - I think it's very important to take this into consideration I've seen low budget productions turn out a much higher standard than a similar show with higher budget.

If this were to go ahead I'm sure there are people much better qualified than myself to put together a guidance sheet for all concerned

Looking good so far though

I often go through stages of seeing an amateur show every week, and my local group are quite used to being inflicted with my show reviews - good or bad. Actually, they've stimulated quite a bit of interest and got people going to see other groups.

I tend to see shows over most of the south. The furthest West I've gone is Penzance, the furthest South is Bexhill, the furthest East is Colchester and the furthest North - well, only to Milton Keynes, but all for amateur shows with no-one I know involved at all.

I think a lot of people in amateur theatre don't think of actually going to see other amateur productions, which is sad.

I think reviews should always be taken for what they are: someone's opinion. Obviously some people will have more experience than others, but then some people just WRITE better than others too. I'm no writer (I agonise over my sections for our monthly magazine!) but I have been involved with and seen masses of theatre and am happy to give my opinion. But that's all it is, MY opinion.

If you think the stage was too dark and you suspect that they were going for a sinister look, then it probably hasn't succeeded. If you thought, "ooh, that's sinister, what a great lighting effect", then it probably has. Simplistic, I know, but that's the general gist. If you have to speak to the lighting designer or director to understand what they were trying to do, rather than what you actually saw, then their point hasn't been made very well!

As for bad reviews, that's a hard one. I can usually find some good things about even the worst productions I've seen. Whether it's one worthwhile performance, or a well thought-out set, or some good scene-setting music. I'm sure we've all seen our fair share of dross over the years but then most of us have probably been IN some of that too - I know I have in the early years!

I think this is a great idea, but .................. Yep. there's usually one or two of those!

1. I concur with other points about how qualified we are to do the job. To echo Micheal, it's absolutely pointless unless it is fair but truthful.

2. To do a review properly (and fairly) is going to take a significant commitment of time. Arrive early, maybe get some pictures, meet the team, watch the show, discuss findings, go home, write up, submit, take queries. Doing the first few would be fun, but IMHO it would soon start to conflict with other tasks and the quality would fall away.

Can I suggest we turn this on it's head and consider setting up a service where groups can ask AMDRAM for a review. If they ask, they must want the viewpoint, and are hopefully prepared to learn from the experience. More a case of 'what could we do better' rather than give us a write up we can use to show how wonderful we are. The commisioning group should get the choice of publishing or not. Charging is an issue, but I would suggest there should be something in it for Amdram. It would be marketed as a 'we'll help you improve' service not a traditional critique. Not too sure how this fits with the Noda approach knowing little about them!

Given all the earlier caveats are met, I'd buy into this sort of approach covering Suffolk, Norfolk, North Essex maybe 3 or 4 times per year. Stingy I know, but I'd rather not do it, than do it badly!

Just my five penneth worth for people to think about!

Robin

PS: Why are all my post's so long? Maureen, can I have some lessons from the Mistress of Brevity please?

Robin

I see the voice of wisom is there .. what a good idea - re groups aproaching Amdram for reviews

Any other ideas anyone?

I thought that the main idea of people reviewing from here was to get "indepth" reviewing done of certain areas.. Not a "Press" or a "Node" over all review...

For people with experience to pass onto others ideas and tips...

And you know what would be nice would be for it to be reviewed before the show, so that any suggestions can be acted on before opening night.

Now I know that some groups and esp some Directors would not be happy with this as it's "their" baby and they know best... But for those group wiling to learn and want to give their best, it wouldn't be a bad thing at all..

If a director is honest enough to say, I don't have experience in a certain area, i.e. fighting or lighting or something like that, to have someone come in and give advice would be a lot better for the production.

We would not be there to take over the show, nor tell everyoen how disallowed word it was... It would be to help and to get MORE out of the production.. Of course advice would have to be given politely and correctly...

QUOTE (Anne-Marie @ Feb 6 2003, 11:45 PM)

I think a lot of people in amateur theatre don't think of actually going to see other amateur productions, which is sad.

good point anne-marie.

to resolve that i think we should take on board supporting each others groups.

Just make sure your forthcoming production is posted in the appropriate place and I see no reason why that shouldn't happen.

I know that Anne-Marie gets a couple of people in during the last rehearsals to view the show and comment as you can get too close to a show and not see the wood for the trees etc.

It's harder for the tech side as even the first night can be view as a work in progress - even then it's often too late to change stuff, however it's good to have someone high light areas where you could do better so that you can improve.

I'd love to have an experienced LD visit my shows and tell me where I'm going wrong. Because of relative experience levels between myself and others in the area - I don't get that feed back. I don't want to sound big headed here, I seem to get praise - which is of course nice - but no-one ever tells me how I can improve - very frustrating.

QUOTE (Eeyore @ Feb 7 2003, 10:47 AM)

QUOTE (Anne-Marie @ Feb 6 2003, 11:45 PM) I think a lot of people in amateur theatre don't think of actually going to see other amateur productions, which is sad. good point anne-marie. to resolve that i think we should take on board supporting each others groups.

I agree, I agree!!

So much so, I'm going to see Hamp tonight at the South London Theatre. This is not a plug Jane, just an example of the power of the forum as I came to be aware of the show via discussions with Helen (cha003). I do use the main website (often) but sometimes thinhgs pass me by.

I couldn't agree more.

This forum (and the main site) have certainly raised my awareness of productions going on outside of my immediate vicinity. I'll certainly be visiting more productions around and about

QUOTE (Ryano @ Feb 7 2003, 11:46 AM)

So much so, I'm going to see Hamp tonight at the South London Theatre. This is not a plug Jane, just an example of the power of the forum as I came to be aware of the show via discussions with Helen (cha003). I do use the main website (often) but sometimes thinhgs pass me by.

And equally there is interest from some of our members to go and see some stuff Carshalton are doing (esp Glengarry Glen Ross) - the powers of discussion!!

QUOTE (cha003 @ Feb 7 2003, 12:08 PM)

QUOTE (Ryano @ Feb 7 2003, 11:46 AM) So much so, I'm going to see Hamp tonight at the South London Theatre. This is not a plug Jane, just an example of the power of the forum as I came to be aware of the show via discussions with Helen (cha003). I do use the main website (often) but sometimes thinhgs pass me by. And equally there is interest from some of our members to go and see some stuff Carshalton are doing (esp Glengarry Glen Ross) - the powers of discussion!!

Yay! Nepotism rules.

Ryano

Are you going to contribute a little review of Hamp from an artistic point of view?

QUOTE (Martin @ Feb 7 2003, 1:02 PM)

Ryano Are you going to contribute a little review of Hamp from an artistic point of view?

I will do so if requested by SLT. There are 3 of us going and one of the others is far more intellegent than I. It would make sense to pool opinion between us and report the main points. If that's OK with Helen that is.

So how would these reviews be used/published? Perhaps initially just sent to the group in question and NOT published. They are supposed to be helpful crit, after all. Is it also worth considering feeding back on the whole experience? Eg how helpful/welcoming were FOH? Any improvements to the venue (cheap ones)? Any useful suggestions you could make (again, cheap and practical ones)?

I ALWAYS support local am productions. Also a useful networking exercise as you come across your audience members in their audience and can plug your own next show... heh heh!

QUOTE (Ryano @ Feb 7 2003, 1:12 PM)

I will do so if requested by SLT. There are 3 of us going and one of the others is far more intellegent than I. It would make sense to pool opinion between us and report the main points. If that's OK with Helen that is.

Of course! Love to hear your thoughts, especially as I'm not in it so you won't be offending me.....

QUOTE (cha003 @ Feb 7 2003, 2:43 PM)

Of course! Love to hear your thoughts, especially as I'm not in it so you won't be offending me.....

Righty ho! Monday morning, one review of Hamp for the perusal of.

Ryano - and we want ALL the dirt!

Well it's set in a trench in the First World War so there's plenty of dirt already .... (boom boom)

QUOTE (cha003 @ Feb 7 2003, 3:37 PM)

Well it's set in a trench in the First World War so there's plenty of dirt already .... (boom boom)

That reminds me of Baldrick's war poem from Blackadder Goes Forth.

Boom Boom Boom Boom
Boom Boom Boom Boom
Boom Boom Boom Boom
Boom Boom Boom Boom

Read it and weep Sassoon!

I'll be the one in the bar with two pencils up me nose ....

Will I be expected to review that Helen?

It's prolly the only laugh you'll get tonight....

In the show I mean. It's very sad. Not in the bar - that's quite happy generally ...

I will be bringing along a box of emergency tissues should any blubbing be necessary.

My other 'arf blubbed quite loudly actually! I was more restrained ...

I don't blub easy but I have been known to. Usually blame it on the house lights coming up too quickly at the end.

Sorry all - Please can we try and keep on topic.. thanks

QUOTE (Emma @ Feb 7 2003, 4:45 PM)

Sorry all - Please can we try and keep on topic.. thanks

Emma where have you been??? Is there any thread left that's still on topic??

OK guys - which one of you is going to come and review my show then?

I think you're a bit of a distance from me, Anne-Marie, but let me know details anyway, I might be able to persuade 'im indoors to go for a bit of a drive ...

Guildford. October 2-11. Beer.

Sounds good! He's in one of our March shows, I'm in one of the April shows and he's assistant director on one of the June shows, so I think we'll deserve a bit of a break after that and will try and get around some other theatres and see what's going on ...

Ryano - Simon's closed your Hamp review thread - fair's fair. If you want to PM me your review or even post it on our own discussion board (there's a thread there for reviews already), that would be great.

Great to meet you last night at last - hope your trip home wasn't too long!

Ryano, Helen,

I have not closed the topic to cause an upset within the ranks!

I think you will agree that a better section of the site can be created for these reviews.

Topics on the discussion board do not last very long, they are archived and I feel that a review should be kept somewhere else on the site that it can be accessed by everyone.

Helen, Ryano, I have suggested you should e-mail the details and put forward the suggestion to Jane. I know she would like a review section.

Not a problem, Simon, perfectly understand why the board isn't necessarily the best place for reviews.