Here's a new thread for Photgraphy... Anything to do with cameras etc etc digital or otherwise then just drop it in here...

I just bought myself a proper digital camera (after using my video camera's digital camera for all these years for my show photography).

Bought a Olympus Camedia C-720 Ultra Zoom.... 400 quid so not your "happy snapper" type but got a great Optical zoom x8 and digital zoom x3... Just testing it now. so far hmmm not too impressed... not tested it with shows yet..

QUOTE (Ryano @ Jan 27 2003, 9:17 AM) in Point Scoring thread

George, I've been commissioned to get a digital camera for the sports & social club. I want about 2m - 3m pixel and plenty of manual zoom (rather than digital). What did you get and how much was it. I bought a Canon Powershot A40 (?199) for my mum and dad for christmas, was tempted to go for this again.

I'd be interested to know how these gadgets perform. I want to be able to take shots of the set and staging under full lighting seeing the beams etc.... I've been told that using film you need tungsten to daylight conveters etc. Life's too short for that stuff - I need a "point and shoot" that gets results, will these digital cameras do the trick??

Well I get pretty good results under stage lighting when using a Digital Camera (esp when I turn the photo to Black/White), but I always seem to have problems with 35mm film... Either very orange or other film faults..

Yes I have been told to use certain filters.... but like you, I can't be bothered to have to go out searching...

I've heard - though not tried - that using 35mm SLIDE film works better for show photgraphs under the light, but again you'll need a filter to cancel out some of the light...

Perhaps someone with 35mm experience can advise here??

I get great results from my Fuji Finepix 2800. This is 2.1 Million pixels, which is enough to blow your pictures up to A3 without any pixelation. The camera retails at ?400, but I bought it on the 'net for ?270!

The main criteria, as well as number of pixels, should be the size and quality of the lens - there is no point in having loads of megapixels is the lens is the size of a drawing pin head. The Finepix 2800 looks like an SLR (only smaller) and has optical zoom, plus a very powerful digital zoom. I cannot fault this camera in any way, and have been really pleased with the results.

It also has the option of shooting small (2 min) video clips, and you can add sound clips to stills.

On the 35mm front, I'd advise that you either use tungsten adjusted film or obtain a blue filter to cancel out the yellow cast.

Another point which people forget is that you shouldn't use flash unless you are fairly close to the stage or have a VERY powerful flash. The light from most flashes anoly travels a few metres, and this "drop-out" will cause your pictures to be dark as the camera thinks it will have plenty of light.

Best to use a faster film with no flash, then the camera's light meter will calculate the correct exposure.

If you're taking pictures from the wings you will need to usa a small aperture in odre to get the maximum depth of field, so a tripod is useful to avoid camera shake.

Yes agree with the NO FLASH thing... Annoying for Actors and some get more cocky as they know the camera is watching them *wink*

My Video Camera (JVC 1800) which I use for Show Photography doesn't have a flash for the Digital Camera side of it... I find it's great for this...

We need to know exactly what film we should get and what filter... if anyone can suggest anything from Jessops Web site or Boots or something...

The great thing with Digital is you can touch up on the computer so much.... Amazing efects and touches you can do...

See this...

http://www.amadrama.co.uk/images/enhance.jpg

Got rid of the orange cast with a simple colour equalizer...

One of the things which I'll find useful is not having to wait for the photos to be developed in order to see the results - on a couple of shows we've pulled the show out before we've seen the photos - thus losing the change to re shoot

Re flashes - I dare anyone to need one under my rig - *L* Seriously I've been told that cameras don't like UV - and have hung UV floods pointing at the audience in such a way as they didn't distract from the performance - we Put up big notices and amde announcements to this effet - and whether it had any actual effect I don't know - we certainly didn't see any flashes go off. More because it annoys others in the audience.

Re digital - I use a lot of saturated colours - I know that Video hates red what about digital cameras?

Digital is certainly the way to go... If I photograph a show and there's anyone under 16 in the show, I always get a member of the committee to review ALL photographs before I leave... Protection for them AND me... Even though there's no laws as such in England for this, I always do it...

I download the photos ontp my laptop and the people can see the photos on the night, also they can select front of house photos too from the dress which can be printed off quickly..

Costs are MUCH cheaper than 35mm as well. Anything from 30p a photograph for 40 or less to 22p a photograph (or cheaper) for more...

TIP : don't get photographs printed off through Boots or whoever one by one or in batches of 4 or 6...

Best make a directory on your computer and copy ALL the photograph you want printing (even duplicates - put them in as "copy of photo1.jpg" etc etc) and brun them onto a CD...

It costs more for the developers to "select" different ones... Where with a CD full of anything form 40 to 200 they just print it off once... MUCH CHEAPER!!!

<!--QuoteBegin--George+Jan 27 2003, 2:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (George @ Jan 27 2003, 2:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If I photograph a show and there's anyone under 16 in the show, I always get a member of the committee to review ALL photographs before I leave... Protection for them AND me... Even though there's no laws as such in England for this, I always do it...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Further to this, I wanted to film my daughter at her end of year swimming class (she's 6) and was told off by the pool attendant. I understood the problem but I'd never given it a thought that it might be construed as 'dodgy'. We live in strange times.

Being a "ex-copper" I know full well sadly the type of people that can hang round swimming pools... This is why I don't want Am Dram to get this stigma, so I always show all photographs to a member of the committee before leaving.

All Drama clubs should ask all their photographers to do this... Even if you know them well... It stops false allegations as well and protect them also... 35mm Negitives can be reviewed at a later date of course... Digital can be on the night...

For those who are looking to buy a camera...

Those Cameras mentioned so far are... (I'll update this message when i find more)

My camera..
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_review...ews/c720uz.html Olympus C-720.

Jon's one... Looks cute...
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2001_review...s/fuji2800.html Fuji Finepix 2800

Now if you're looking for a semi-professional camera...
Although about 600 to 800 pounds these two are GREAT.
Great reviews on these in all mags and site.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_review...s/dimage7i.html Dimage 7i

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_reviews/f717.html Sony F717

I'd not be sure which one of these two would get my money...

Ok..

A wonderful Review Site which gives LOADS of information and tests is...

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/

I'll be updating this shortly with my thoughts about my new Dig Camera...

I recently bought a Nikon CoolPix 4300 and I love it. It is great for no flash pictures of shows and captures the full colour depth really well. Only thing is that with the longer exposures, some movements become blurred. I have held it so far, but I am looking at desktop tripods of the future.

If anyone would like samples, please let me know.

Hope this helps

Dave

For those wanting to know what a Nikon CoolPix 4300 review is like...

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_review.../nikon4300.html

We've just ordered a Fuji Finepix 2800 for our Sports & Social Club. Let you know how it goes when we've had a play. Not a bad little package, camera comes with an extra 128Mb card and battery recharger and batteries, all for ?309 from The Digital Camera Company.

Good choice Ryano. I bought mine from the same place (?270 with normal 16Meg card, but I bought a 64meg online for ?19.99)

Let me know how you get on - I've heard that some 128 cards can be problematic.

What Op Sys do you run? I'm on XP and everything worked fine from the word go, but recently every time I link up the camera it thinks it's an external drive. Not a problem with the camera, just the PC. Can't suss it, may have to re-format hard drive and start over!

I've got 2 64 Mb cards for my video Camera/Digital Camera, A 32mb and a 16mb.

And 2 32mb ones for my Olympus and a 16mb...

I like spreading around the files rather than keeping one big one and it not working.

Also got a Dazzle "Multi Card Reader" from PC World which gives me acces too all cards..

While I'm downloading one card to my laptop, I can still be taking photos with the others...

Easy...

Okay so I've read some reviews - and got confused with the exception of price - how should I go about selecting a camera?

As I'm off to the states soon could I get one there?

Depend what you want to use it for Martin.

Are you a "Snappy Happy" or do you use a proper camera...

Do you use a 35mm SLR? Know about ISO and that?

Want to take action shots? Am Dram shots?

Okay

I've used quality SLR's on auto with some manual - I don't want too basic - I'll need something that's good at low light levels too.

I don't mind setting the camera up for specific shots - but I also want the ability to pull it out and shoot - no fuss

So I guess a mid range camera then

If you've had SLR experience... Need a high ISO (for low light) and you got the money...

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_review...s/dimage7i.html Dimage 7i

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_reviews/f717.html Sony F717

Those are the two.. Digital Camera at the moment don't do the low light thing much... I think the lower ones do go to about 1600 ISO...

Any higher than that and you're lookign at 2500 quid.. +....

ISO 1600 I guess should be more than enough - I'd use the low light stuff mainly for pictures of scenes to show off the lighting without having to long exposure time

Reading some reviews on these, because it's still quite new, the ISO 1600 are apparently quite grainy.... But effective...

For photographing your lighting plots etc, remember to use a tripod!!!

Don't know enough about different cameras to recommend one. However, one point I would like to make is that digital cameras (not all) have an annoying one second or so delay between pressing the button and the camera firing, which is fine normally but if you are aiming to get a particular action shot (say a custard pie in someone's face) you have to anticipate the action or you will miss the actual moment.
I am also having trouble [U]turning off[U] the flash on my camera (I must read the instruction booklet more closely!) and so I get the multi, anti-red eye flash before the actual flash - whether I want it or not. This must be distracting for the cast although they haven't complained . . . yet.

Yes sadly this in one of the MAJOR issue I have with all proper Digital cameras.

For taking pctures of sets etc up great, but for getting that moment it's a bit naff, esp the lower priced ones.

My JVC Video Camera (Digital Camera side) is 100% better for this kind of things BUT the picture quality won't go about 1.9 megapixels..

With it when you half press the button, it freezes the photo then if it's naff (if you get a blinker or blur) then releasing the button gets rid of it, but if it's good pushing the button all the way down saves the photo...

I can't find a Proper Digotal Camera that does this....

Anyone know of one which is different?

Ok Camera Review...

My Olympus C-720.

Over all, it's cool... Nothing special, but then I didn't buy it for all the tricks and bells...

I can't see me using it much for Am Dram work as I find the Flash is VERY heavy and whites out a lot of stuff within the 2 to 4 meter range. It's just too strong for close up stuff.

However the photographs I've taken without a flash work fine. The colour is good, the camera controls are more than the "Snap Happy" but a lot less than the "semi-pro" cameras like the Sony F717 details earlier.

Would I recomend one?

Yes, for the cost it's for a x10 Zoom, and loads of bits to play about with as regards settings.

It has a "My Camera" setting on the Dial which you can use to "pre-set" your favorite settings instead of having to set up loads of stuff everytime.

It's very much for someone who wants more than a "point and click" but not enough for someone who knows what they are doing (expect perhaps as a backup camera).

I will use it for Am Dram, but for more "pose" shots and Front of house images I think. I'll be taking in on a shoot later this month so I'll be able to show some examples then.

Okay I'm surrounded by some reviews ad head filled with advice

So far I've got 3 cameras in front of me - all Fuji they are - Finepix 2800, Finepix S304 and Finepix S602.

Bearing in mind I'm not a professional photographer but that I want to use the camera in the theatre as well as for general stuff - any preferences. Is the 602 really that much better than the 2800 or would the S304 do. I don't mind paying for a 602 but don't want to waste it if a lower priced one is just as good....


Always willing to look at equivalents it's just that everyone I seemed to have spoken to has a Fuji Camera.

Final question - is there anything that would prevent me from using a camera brought in the states - over here? Are chargers multi voltage?

Martin, you got the reviews mate...

The S602 sounds tempting for me though... "low-noise ISO 800 and 1600 mode"
and "shutter speeds up to 1/10,000 second", "6x optical zoom lens", and "powered by standard AA type batteries"...

Figuring that the newest is best, if the cheaper cameras are older and have not the above, I'd go for this one...

It was actually on my short list...

Read the reviews - the techie jargon confused the techie

I was leaning this way I just wanted to ensure I hadn't missed anything obvious -

If it was on your list what persuaded you other wise?

I just narrowed it down to 2... Sony 717 and the Dimage 7i....

Slightly more features, reviews were pertty good and lastly which grabbed it...

"They look good"...

Very sad...

Next question (I feel like Ged in the lighting topic here) The cameras come with a lead to download pics to your PC right.... So what's this card reader all about?

S*it all I want to do is buy a bl**dy camera why can't they make it simple like lighting ??

hehehe

You need to power up your camera, cnnect to the camera and download the files from the camera...

Yup you can do all this no problem..

But say you wanted to use your camera WHILE you're downloading the photos.

Then a card reader, which can stay pluged into your PC is handy...

It just means you don't need to get the camera out and "hook it all up".

I got a multi card reader... It reads 4 different ypes of card so I don't need to swop between one camera and the next..

If you don't want to clutter your desk with camera and wires it also can be useful just to have the card and the reader..

Oh dear and Martin hasn't even begun to take pictures yet? He'll be all at sixes and sevens then when he find 'his' lights are no good for photography work (nor yet for good video!)! I'm smiling at the prospect already.

Put another way Martin, and a way in which a techy should understand, the general principle in digital anything is that 'newer' = 'better' = 'cheaper'. Sweeping statement I know, but so often true. If in doubt, wait til next year and then buy something even better spec'd for the same money or less.

Robin

Oh I'm well aware of the effects of my lighting on film and video. You should see a video camera "fritz itself" when confronted with the deep reds and almost UV's from movers

It can be a real headache coming to a compromise with the lighting for the video. If it's just a show video for the cast then they loose - it's more important to light for the paying public. Of course if video is driving the production then they get what they want.

...
Of course we're taking video when you have permission to do so..
...

Photography however is easier as at least you can pick your moment, and with Digital Editing on the computer at least enhance the colours or help things along to make the photograph look like, or give the effect of what it looks like in real life.

How are you on "Paint Shop Pro" Martin *wink*

That's your next step....

(Pssst am I a hon-a-hairy Techie yet?)

Doh cheers mate... how did I loose this.... *sigh*
ok...

Here's some small examples of normal photos taken with my Olympus...
These have been posted else where.... But I'm also putting them here..

Here ya go...

http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_2003/c01.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_2003/c02.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_2003/c03.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_2003/c04.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_2003/c05.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_2003/c06.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_2003/c07.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_2003/c08.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_2003/c09.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_2003/c10.jpg

All taken round Bude, Cornwall...

Next is examples of what can be done with Digital photos...

Now here's a few examples of what you can do with them...

I have used 1 Sunset photo and melted in the others using Paint Shop Pro.

http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_...003/merge01.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_...003/merge02.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_...003/merge03.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_...003/merge04.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_...003/merge05.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_...003/merge06.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_...003/merge07.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_...003/merge08.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_...003/merge09.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_...003/merge10.jpg

So amazing results can be got with very little work...

Btw... Used my Olympus Camedia C-720 Ultra Zoom Digital Camera last night when taking show photographs....

Hmmmmmm.. Wasn't impressed...

The lighting in the show was rather dark so I had to use the flash which then did as flashes do, just gave a really false feel to it.

So I went back to using my Video Camera's Digital Camera... Great Results..

BUT.. The Olympus would work fine if

1. On a tripod...

2. Clear stage just viewing the Set and Lighting.

3. If actors on stage then they "froze" for the photo.

Not good for Am Dram work.
Great for out doors on a sunny day...

Flash is a bit too "harsh"... I'm going to put a filter on it tonight and see how I get on with an other show...

One thing I have observed about my digital camera (a Fuji 1400) is that it seems to be much more prone to visible dirt on the picture, especially with flash.

I have read that this is because the imaging surface of the CCD in the camera is much smaller than a 35mm negative, and hence the relative size of a fleck of dust is much greater :-( The net effect being that even dust in the air can be reflected as small white circles in the picture, even if the lens is scrupulously clean.

My digital camera is only a snap-taking toy, I find it great for after-shgow parties and the green room, but the SLR is still king for taking photos of what's happening on stage

regards,
/alan (1st post! yaayyy!)

Nice first post...

I'd agreee totally there.. I found that with my photos last night...

Also there was smoking on stage which was highlighted by the flash...

Perhaps it's catch 22... Lower the "Size" of the image from 2000x1500 to 800x600 might get rid if this..

but then you get image great for Web but not good for printing...

I'll test it tonight and tell ya tomorrow..

Ok worked on a panto last night, MUCH better lighting so I was able
to get a few shots with my Olympus... Sadly though out of 40 to 60
shots with the Olympus camera over 50% were "blur" spoilt
and a few out of focus. But saying that when I started using my Video
camera for them, it was roughly the same amount.

Here's the good examples of the Olympus.

http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/frank_200...03/frank005.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/frank_200...03/frank004.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/frank_200...03/frank007.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/frank_200...03/frank002.jpg

And here are some with my normal Video Digital Camera.

http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/frank_200...03/frank017.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/frank_200...03/frank009.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/frank_200...03/frank014.jpg
http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/frank_200...03/frank016.jpg

Yes the colours are a lot better. Very much richer...

And of course the original picture size is much bigger...
So quality is better with the proper camera...

So I'm going to use the Digital for larger group shots.

Crunch time...

Yes in all it was a good buy...

Digital cameras don't do everything I want, perhaps in time they will.
High spec cameras like the Sony 707 and the Dimage might be better, but I'm
going to wait and see if I can borrow one to test...

IF ANY ONE OUT THERE WOULD LIKE TO LEND ME ONE PLEASE!!!!!!!

Stay tuned...

Hi George and fellow Image Doctors.

Finally got some of my images on my web site:

http://www.playsforplaytime.org:7373

Click Enter
Click Photography
Click subject.

Any one else got any images posted, we could link a gallery!

Wooooo VERY nice ones......

You're not bad are you... *wink* You should turn pro...

Jane said something about creating a "Gallery" perhaps on AmDram...

Anne-Marie, you might be interested in this...

http://www.amadrama.co.uk/photos/cornwall_...screensaver.exe

Here's a screen saver of 20 of my photographs from cornwall...
Like the sunset ones before.

It's 1091kb in size, download it be RIGHT CLICK and use SAVE AS to your C:\temp directory.

Then double click on it. Change the Time to say about 15 seconds and away you go.

Easy as pie...

With Jane's permission, I'm going to do a AM DRAM one... For AmDram.co.uk...

Images of the theatre..

What you think Jane?

You should only download and run EXE files from trusted sites.
Never accept one emailed to you. Always use a Virus checker.

I didn't program the screen saver. It's from www.go.to/mxtool/

You can use it to create your own using your own photographs.

I've had it running on my PC since I came back from Cornwall.
It's been fine.

*dare I post my link here....* ohhh but it IS about photographs after all

Well my new camera is behaving a lot better than I first reported...

I'm beginning to warm to it... HOWEVER I'm still aiming to buy a F717 sometime...

For examples of the shoot last night see here... Colour are the Olympus Digital Camera
and black/white are the Video Camera shots..

http://amadrama.co.uk/photos/rose_2003/

The original colour ones look a LOT better when not scaled down..

TIP : I used a Tripod this time for the Olympus shots.... Worked ok...

I'm sooooo pleased with my Fujifilm S602 it's producing great shots on fully auto for a none photographer like me its excellent

Got some pics of set under dim light with a gobo wash on the floor - worked great without a long exposure time

I'll mail George them for his opinion

Send away Martin for put them of a site for all to view...

That's the problem is with Long Exposures...

Blooming actors tend to move in them.. gits...