I spend a lot of time creating websites for different people including my Amateur Drama group.

It is not something that I have been doing for very long but it is something that I have got a reasonable understanding of.

I am a computer programmer by profession and spend much of my time learning new techniques and languages.

2 years ago I had no idea how to setup a website but since that time I have created quite a few sites.

I am by no means saying that I am an expert, I look at my site everyday and see things in it that I don't like or want to change. I am a perfectionist and I do hope that one day soon I will have a professional looking site that I am happy with.

If you are thinking about creating your site then it really is a case of taking the plunge and having a go. You cannot go wrong at this, you really cannot. You may not be happy with your first attempt but I am a strong believer you need to keep having a go until you get it right.

Don't be afraid to ask for help, there are some ver impressive Amateur Drama sites on there including Amdram that have a professional finish to them.

I suggest you have a go and if you have any questions then try me in this forum or by email simon@adlingtonmusicandarts.com and I will do my best to help you or point you in the right direction.

I agree whole heartedly with Simon, Websites really are worth while having. I'm currently having one built for me (by a 14 year old!!) for my next production - The intention is for it to appear on publicity, to provide info and publicity on the show, and be a central source of info for all those connected with the production.

The one important thing (and I expect Simon will agree) is that they need to be updated regularly Websites need good house keeping if you want to attract people back - it's no use having out of date info displayed (i.e. booking info on a show that has already happened)

Martins right,

Theres a lot of talent around and the kids of this generation are some of the most computer literate people around.

In terms of promotion our website has proven excellent.

We have sold several tickets through our website and are considering a credit card enabled server in the future.

We have also importantly attracted new talent and a lot of help!

If you are thinking about it then I would go for it!

We have also managed to make valuable contacts with other sites that assist us with promotion and inter-society relations.

Nice Website Simon - really easy to use and informative - You might want to check out the link from Mack and Mable as it goes to a links page

Can I suggest you put a URL here so that others can see a good example of a group's site?

Well Spotted! - It does indeed go to a copy of my links page for some reason

I am still working on my site at the moment, I am hoping to update it this weekend to add some new features and hopefully make it a lot more professional that it looks now.

I have been very busy on commercial sites to have enough time to spend on my own. If anyone does what to look the links is:

Adlington Music and Arts Society

I will be updating it shortly though and fixing this error.

I appreciate constructive criticism so if anyone has any comments feel free to bring them up!

Hi Simon

Nice site.

Thanks!

Wait till you see the next version to pass judgement.

I have gone for clean lines, more compact and certainly a lot more professional.

I HOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have been working on a new site for Lucilla DS for a while now. At leat I enjoy doing it (my wife calls it 'playing on the computer and thinks I'm obsessed!) and our Committee and Members appreciate it (but with one or two notable exceptions, getting anyone to write copy for it is like getting blood out of a stone!). Apparently others enjoy it too as in the last 4/5 weeks it has had about 17000 hits! I shall be enhancing it further in an ongoing process, maybe the sky's the limit!
It is at http://lucilla-dramatic.merseyside.org/ if you feel like taking a look.

However, we have had a site of some sort for nearly 3 years, and I often wonder whether its worth it! From the point of view of getting new members has it been? NO! From the point of view of getting entries for our 1-Act (NDFA Affilliated) Play Festival has it been? NO! From the point of view of ticket sales has it been? NO! There have been a few membership applicatons as a result of the Site, but no one who applied to join by this method actually followed thtough and became a member! True, this doesn't appear to be a purely Internet related phemomena, but! We don't (can't) sell tickets from our Site, although maybe soon(ish) there will be asome sort of function to do so. But is it worth the bother of setting this up? No one has phoned for tickets as a result of seeing it on the Internet, or said at the Box Office that they saw our producton advertised on the Internet!

So far the main function of the Site at least in recent times has been to provided something for me to do (thus keeping me off the streets, no doubt a good thing!), some interesting anecdotes and oh yes, an approach from BBC Crimewatch asking us to help with one of their reconstructions! We are 'on' next Wednesday! Maybe true fame will be ours one day when a Hollywood Producer approaches us and we will all owe it to the Lucilla Website!

I have now updated my site

Derek,

We have received a lot of interest via our site but we have publicised it heavily.

It's on all our stationery and all our members have e-mail addresses.

We use it on all our promotional material as well and it seems to have paid off.

I have spent a lot of time trying to ensure the site rates high on search engines as well. We get visited by a good number of people and its growing everyday!

Keep up the good work and it will pay off!

Does anyone know how hard it is to set up a credit card enabled booking system? and how much it would cost - I think this would then help all society websites to gauge how helpful their web site really is. I for one would never call a box office and tell them specifically that I'd seen the production on the web.

I have done some minor investigating however, I have not found out enough to be able to give good information!



It looks to me as though the costs would be too great at this time, there are other options such as payPal etc which I am still investigating.

At the end of the day we would like to sell tickets over the web and we did have a successful system that was not thrilling but worked:

1) We took the booking details via a form and agreed to hold the tickets etc for 7 days.
2) On successful completion of the form, the user got the address details to send the tickets and a cheque.
3) Once we had received the cheque and it had cleared we returned the tickets.

It sounds long winded but it was fairly successful and all it cost us was a stamp!

Following on from Simon's post, I make things one step simpler on the Guild Players site. When we have tickets on sale, I have a box office page which contains a version of the postal booking form that appears on our flyers. All a site visitor has to do is print it out, fill it in, and send it with their cheque. OK, it is not very high tec but it is simple!

Dave

Dave,

In my opinion simple is quite often better, we are already planning to offer a similar document for our next production "The King & I".

I agree that is a great idea!

Thanks for your help, Would prefer to have the whole system done buy advanced technology!! but guess I'm a bit out of our price range!!
Will try your ideas, would be better than nothing at all.
Thanks again.

Keeping the website up-to-date is a good point already mentioned on this topic.
We have a website and it was submitted to Amdram way back some time before I joined the group and it is not kept as up-to-date as some of us would like, but it is out of our hands as we cannot contact the person who sorted it out. I am constantly reminding the person who can do something about this and get "yeah I must remember to ring them, etc." We took things a step further and another frustrated member redesigned the page but cannot ftp it. I am tempted to have a go myself so I can add the full list of productions and add more info and some photos. I recently found out that the group was formed in the 1970s as a result fo a split of another group set up in the 1950s. I am trying to find out more so that the website ideas I have (currently in my mind) can look more appealing/get us more members. IF anyone can recommend a non-html based method of creating pages, please let me know. I have been told about dreamweaver. Is this any good? I would like to do this myself rather than the group pay for someone to do it for us. Any sensible suggestions welcome!

Louise,

Dreamweaver is a fantastic tool but not the easiest of tools to learn to use.

I have no idea of your current IT skills, If you are familiar with the use of Microsoft Word then I often recommend the use of Microsoft Frontpage which hopefully you will have in your Microsoft Office Bundle.

I am not saying Frontpage is the very best web design tool to use but you can very easily create a very nice site which is very easy to maintain.

A good example is the site mentioned by litoralis above, that site is constructed using Frontpage.

If you are feeling that little more adventurous, then you may want to go for Macromedia Dreamweaver, you can download this for a free trial but it is expensive to purchase a copy, trust me I know


Other options to consider maybe Namo Webeditor which you can get free on magazines, it is a very nice and neat tool to use and fairly user friendly.

All these options revolve around HTML though, they don't require you to know how to write it as they will effectively generate it for you but they do need patience and plenty of time to master.

There are quite a few other options available, one which you may find a little daunting at first but nevertheless it is an extremely good package.

Its called PHP Nuke, I have a site which uses this format PHP Nuke Site

Initially the site looks quite complicated however everything that you see on that site is edited online. If I wanted to add a news article I could do in little more than 30 seconds.

Its quite complex to setup at first but I would offer my services (free of charge!!)
to assist if thats what you wanted to do.

Another drawback is that you require PHP and MySQL to create that sort of site and that is normally only available on paid for hosts.

Theres a lot of paid for hosts around at the moment, I use Easily but they do seem to have hiked their prices a little recently. Anyway If I can be of any assistance let me know.

Regards

Louise,

I'm not a web page specialist - I've just built a couple for the fun of it. I used Frontpage (microsoft) however my venue uses Dream Weaver both of wich are WYSIWYG (What you see is what you get) and make it very easy

I do recommend you do get HTML fro dummies jut to learn the basics - as it will help. I also used the QUE series of books that gave advanced methods - and to help they put all the code and hard stuff on CD so you could cut and paste it

Don't forget that amdram.co.uk can help design and host your site. We can build the site for you (for a very REASONABLE cost) and then host it for you for free. Have a look at Free Pages and then email me direct if you're interested. jane@amdram.co.uk

Jane

Could I insert the word "almost" into Martin's posting?
Most web site tools are almost WYSIWYG. That is to say "What You See Is What You Get except that the text size and line spacing will change and it will look different on Netscape compared to the way it looks on Internet Explorer". Such are the pleasures of creating a web site.

That said, any site authoring tool will do a pretty good job of creating a basic site. The impression created by your site is much more driven by the content (is it clear, relevant and up-to-date) rather than by the tool you use.

I use Visual Page from Symantec, which, at the time I bought it, was cheaper than FrontPage. It lacks some of the features of FrontPage - the site structure management isn't as good, for example (but for small sites I don't care), and it has the added bonus of not trying to suck you into Microsoft-specific features.

Having tried most of the WYSIWYG editors, I have personally concluded that purchasing Macormedia Dreamweaver was well worth it.

As for the concerns on cross browser support, for example Internet Explorer and Netscape, you should be aware that the browsers are more and more compatible nowadays.

I doubt for a first site many people have the ability to introduce something that will cause a problem when displayed on a different browser.

One thing I do see in a lot of in Amdram sites is the poor use of colour.

A bright yellow (I mean Very Bright) background with Black or Blue writing looks TERRIBLE. Music as well is a very big no no!

I am not saying that you should not have music on your site but if you do have music then let it be the choice of the visitor to switch it both on and off.

If you set off on your first site then my pointers would be as follows:
1) Don't try and do something over ambitious just because it looks good!, make sure it works first and if you are in any doubt then check it accross the different browsers
2) Pictures are always nice but if they take a month of Sundays to load then they are a waste of time. Always compress your pictures to the smallest sixze without losing too much quality.
3) Choose your colours carefully, dayglo sites are NOT good
4) Choose a nice mixture of images and writing, writing in huge letters maybe eye catching for one second till the person closes the page.
5) If you do use pictures then make sure they look good, using clipart from your PC is alright but remember everyone has seen those pictures a million times.
6) Always aim to make your site look professional, I mean don't try and cram everything on one page, come up with a layout and structure.
7) If you do choose to use pictures then make sure they look good!, there are loads of pictures around with jagged edges or ones that don't blend that look terrible.
8) If you set your targets high enough and take your time, asking others for help you will create the best site.

All you people on Broadband REMEMBER it maybe fast on your PC but not on my MODEM!!!!


If you make a site remember to keep it updated and interesting!
BORING PAGES SUCK! <_<

Have fun

Simon

Just been over to your (updated) site and noted with interest that while each show has credited each and every member of the cast, not one member of the technical team gets a mention! DO you not have any or don't they like being credited for ther hard work

hehehehe

Trying to get anything and I mean anything out of Techincal Team is like
trying to steal sweets from a baby!

I really struggled to get photos of the cast but I am planning some pages for the Honoraria and Technical Team.

We have a lot of hard working people behind stage and you are quite right that they deserve some recognition (Me being one of them!)

Armed with my digital camera, I will capture them after Xmas!

Following Simon's 'pointers' of 19th Dec, I'd add:
Compress your pictures: definitely, and it's surprising how a low a quality level you can go to with JPGs and still get them looking reasonable. As a general rule, use GIF for line art, JPG for pictures, but try in both formats and see which gives the best result for the smallest size.

Simon says: BORING PAGES SUCK! Oh, come on, it depends what you're looking for, and what you mean by boring. I would say that most pages don't need fancy graphics and certainly don't need Flash. But then maybe I'm biased because my artistic talent is zero. I have a web site full of 'boring' pages (no pictures), but they're high on content, and for an information site, that's what people want. And as Simon also says, most people have still got 56K modems.

Certainly if you follow that line of thought, amdram.co.uk is boring - we have very few pictures, but tons of content!!

Jane

The BORING PAGES SUCK! comment was aimed at those who think that making
the writing bigger (ie to look like more content) is good.

I suppose what I am saying is that if you do have a lot of text etc and not many pictures then you need to make sure your layout is interesting rather than one huges clump of text!

I hate sites which have a dayglo pink or yellow background with huge Black text and nothing interesting to catch the attention.

Amdram web pages ROCK!!!!! Loads of info... Quick to load.... Colourful...

"Who could ask for anything more" (to quote a line from Crazy For You)...

I'd suggest that most clubs don't need anything more than 1 page to tell you what's on next and some more pages for photos etc of past productions...

If anyone tell you otherwise then they are selling something *wink*

I think examples of good sites (In Berkshire anyway) are....

http://www.ebos.org.uk/
and
http://www.crowthornemusicalplayers.org.uk/

They are "clean", updated always, never out of date... Crisp graphics when required and load quickly...

Examples of bad sites i won't publish, they know who they are.... *wink*

But examples are... "glarish colours", too small text or huge text chunks..
Images which are "blocky and chunky"... and links which go to nowhere...

It's very easy to get a good site going... Once it is going, there's not
much work to be done to keep it current...

Awh shucks

Jane

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue][/COLOR]

Wow! This is the first time I have used the new Message Board although I did get involved in the old one

On the subject of Websites - Sudbury Dramatic Society's one at ww.sudburydramatic.co.uk is my baby - I came to it with little (or no) knowledge of HTML using WYSISYG Front Page Express, upladed via ftp to the free webhosting provided by yahoo/geocities through whom I have obtained the counter and guest book. It is possible to edit this online and by doing that I have learnt a little HTML as I have gone along.

I have had problems with the file sizes of some of our pictures and I need to go back and resize these and upload them again, but I am learning as I go along. The site has a brief background to SDS, audition dates, current and planned productions, copies of our monthly newsletter online and the aim is to provide a record of casts and some pictures of every production but it is quite a long job.

I have had a favourable response from current (and old) members - I think people just like finding themselves on the internet!

I need to change the free message board however as it is full of very annoying and invasive pop up ads, but seeing as we are still trying to get members to use it as intended (like this one) it is not currently a problem. Perhaps I will investigate the provider of this one.

Anyway take a look - it certainly wasn't too difficult to create although time consuming to maintain and I have learnt a lot from it

There is software out there to stop pop ups...

http://www.meaya.com/

For example... (I've not tried it)...

But is it worth the money?

I tend to stay away from ALL sites with pop up ads and stuff, even Am Dram ones.

PLEASE JANE NEVER USE THEM!!!!!!! *wink*

Hi George

I can assure you that amdram.co.uk will NEVER have pop-ups, not while I'm in charge!!!!!!

Saying that, advertisers do ensure that amdram.co.uk stays online, but I hope that the advertising isn't too intrusive.

Jane

FREE STRANGE TOYS FOR BEDROOMS

Hi Jane...

GET YOUR FREE SQUISHY THING HERE

I'm sure with you incharge the site will go onto even further great things...

PROBLEMS WITH SET ERECTIONS??? CLICK HERE

and advertisers won't get the better of you...

FREE SET LOANS FOR ALL GROUPS

*wink*

Just which planet are you on George

Jane

Actually on a related point, I'd be keen to get feedback (yes I know, THE most dangerous question in web design) but there's a limit to how much testing I can do here as a volunteer - can people have a look at our site and give feedback?


thanks?

Ged

Hey, looks great. Clean and tidy. All main links work, no broken pages.

ARRGGHH A POPUP!!!!!!!! *wink* Only in the "Guest Book Page" so I'll forgive you...

In IE your home page works, but in Netscape the top "Network is a community theatre group based in the centre of" text is hidden behind the graphic top left. Not a bad thing as such, could just be my browser.

The only thing I can suggest is changing the Liverpool Network graphic (top left) to a JPG. As it's got little white dots on it which look odd, but it's becasue it's a GIF and partly transparent in those places.

If you're not sure what I mean I can "touch it up" for you. Make it look cleaner if you wish.

Other than that it's a very good example of a Am Dram website... well done...

[Added] Yes ok I was bored at work.... Check this out and see if you think it's slightly better...

http://www.amadrama.co.uk/images/logo2.jpg

For those "techies" who want to know how it was done...
Using Paint Shop Pro. Load GIF. Save As JPG.
Resize to 1000 by 437. White out the parts that need to be white.
Do a Gaussian Blur (2.0). Resize image to 300 x 131 and save.

Hi Im new on the forums

and im a 15yr Old Webmaster! by looking at some of your work it looks great! well done!

Some of my website are : RollerCoaster Fun - Offline
Not - Hubbard

and i have just been asked to redesign The Jakes Ladder Theatre Company Website

Ged,

No offence meant but seeing as George wants to "retouch" your logo for you,
I thought I might have a pop as well!

[img]http://www.adlingtonmusicandartssociety.btinternet.co.uk/bwLogo.jpg[/img]

I thought a little 3D effect would look nice!

Or maybe a little colour?

[img]http://www.adlingtonmusicandartssociety.btinternet.co.uk/colLogo.jpg[/img]



I have a had a good look round your site Ged and I am very impressed, maybe a little too much content on the first page but thats nothing really!

Good technical design, meta tags etc, very good Amdram Site

(I am only kidding around with the pictures!)

Regards

woo

thanks for the input, the newsletter is a monster, they're not usually that big but it's been a busy year; "look back in exhaustion" wasn't just a limp theatrical joke...

the logo is a bit lumpen, isn't it? It's been with us since our first flyer and really needs an overhaul.

Wow, thanks Simon I think I'll be testing one of them on the new forum.

Thanks George, I do need to retest the whole thing in Navigator.


Ged

I'd say having a website has been worth it. It's not been half as successful as I think it might be but we've had a trickle of new members directly from it and many new/old members and audience members have commented on how much they like it. I'd dedfinitely rather we had it than not. My challenge is to make it more informative and interactive and keep users coming back. My ultimate would be for CMP-frfiendlies to be chatting on it!

looking at the user logs for ours, a lot of people are just looking for *a* drama society. by having the website we're catching that audience. we're happy to point them to other groups (links to other groups on our website) but we're catching them.

we're also maintaining email newsletters and a notice for auditions. Both very successful.