Hiya Chums, me old fruits, ayup pal, wayhey man

...so then, ANOTHER serious topic attempt.

I might not have many pips but I do know what makes you lot tick...(*duck for cover*)

I'm from Enfield originally so that's Middlesex or North London aint it? But I've lived in various places including Manchester and Leicestershire and now Yorkshire. Aye, well I've settled down y'know. I love doing accents in plays and play readings/reading in for people etc. So my question is this:

Do we have any useful tips for using dialects and accents where required?
Between us we must have a mountain of experience (funny, good, not so good) that we could share. So what do you reckon, who will get the replies rolling in????
Are there any dialect tapes/cds people have used which are helpful? It might help with our next project as most of the cast have to be posh.

Remember, serious advice and not just posting for your pips.

Louise

(famous for postings and disappearing off the board)
pps not even approaching big 40 yet haha...

Hi Louise,
If you want to really get into accents in a serious way, get yourself a book on phonetics. This is the only way to really understand how one accent varies from another, and thus reproduce them faithfully.
I was lucky enough to study under some incredible voice coaches, and had to sit through a whole year of 2 phonetics classes a year at drama school. With such a varied background, how would you describe your current accent? Ideally you need to "neutralise" your own accent first, by becoming proficient at RP (received pronunciation). This is perceived to be the accent you'de have if you lived in the middle of a triangle drawn between London, Oxford & Cambridge, and is regarded as "neutral".
The reason behind this is that you can't put an accent onto a voice which already has its own accent (which is why Northerners struggle with cockney ior American accents) - it's like trying to put makeup onto a mask or wear two costumes at once, it simply doesn't work. (OK, poor attempt at similies, but you get my meaning!)
Next time I'm in the loft I'll dig out my phonetics book and give you the title and author. You might be lucky enough to find it in a library, otherwise it's relatively inexpensive to buy.

Jon

If you want the cheap and cheerful method... (my one)...

Find a accent you like or you think would suit a production.
I use ones off the TV or Video/DVD.

Put it on Tape and then just play it in the car, all you got to do is mimic then voice again and again and again... (it's hard work).

I've now got a passable American (Mid West, New York and Southern - Elvis for singing), English (Snobby), Soft Irish and Hard West Belfast Accents, South African (but I've yet to find a play/musical I can do this one). My Dean Connery isn't bad either... Enough to fool the audience when I give the "Greetings ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show" speech...

The main point is you got to do it all the time... At home, talk to your folks, copy people off the TV and just get use to moving the voice around..

Hiya, I've just got time to check amdram this morning while Jay Jay jet plane is entertaining my cherubs.

Good replies so far. I think my accent is inbetween. When I lived in Manchester they said I was posh, but in my home town it was definitely not posh and bordering on cockney. So I find it comfortable to do posh/snobby and cockney.
I did mimic someone at drama last production and it was completely unintentional. I was only reading in for them one week but I had heard them so often it just came out and the script was phonetically written to some extent so that helped.

I have noticed that when a posh accent is required, some people find it hard to keep their vowel sounds consistent so they'll be doing a good voice but then out slips "laff". I will hunt down books and the idea of taping the accent is good. It'd be useful for lots of plays.

Cheerio

Louise

If you want REALLY good posh "character" accents check out the Carry On Films...

No seriously... They are great accents...

Also just read a book, or anything.... But do it in that accent and that will help when auditioning... You get more confident... Just pick up a Mag or even read road signs in the car... The more you do it the better you'll become.

I'll have to try some of these ideas ... I'm Australian (living in Leeds) and have never been game to try accents, but I am sure I would get more parts if I could do them and do them well!

Great question

O

Orlando,

I think you'd enjoy reading "Whodunnit" by Anthony Shaffer. It is a country house murder. Lots of really good roles and loads of *accents! Actually if anyone else is interested in plays which require accents, you should read it too. We had great fun with this play.

Best wishes

Louise

* Somerset, posh, cockney, Australian, American ... take your pick.

Ooh I LOVE playing with accents. My fave was Annie Loder in the play of Jekyll and Hyde - a lovely, thick as 2 short planks, Dorset. Some good tips in this thread.

Sadly my Welsh sounds like Indian...

I think Welsh is the hardest accent to do myself.

Unless I cam talking directly to a Welsh person my accent slips into Indian...

I've been doing some research and apparently having a posh accent or talking posh is using "received pronunciation". (check it in thesaurus or dictionary)
Jeeves has some good links, as does Google.

Other search terms to use : phonetics, phonology, dialect.

I haven't checked out "cockney" but it might be called "Estuary English."
I wait to be corrected. There's plenty of information.

Happy surfing and happy amdram forum checking!

Louise

Hi There just thought I'd add my twopenny's worth!!

I also studied speech at drama school and found the easiest way to slip into accents (and remember them) was to use hook lines.

Even just by saying these lines in your head helps - and they can literally be anything.
e.g. my hook line for welsh is "my mother married a priest"
and for southern american - you never did I don't believe a word of it.

Also just a note on RP - you can get posher!! for example if you were born and bread in Kensington, that would not really be RP - which is a little more relaxed.
RP - is a little more like the home counties - spoken well!

Hope this helps, and keep the tips coming - this is a great thread!

Hi Aims!

It's me, topic starter, Louise. I like the idea of hook lines. That's a good one. I'll go back on tuesday night and slip it into conversation somewhere. Incidentally and this is still on topic we had a most interesting first rehearsal for our latest play (email me directly for details) as half the cast are from Sheffield and half are not. We have a right' ol bunch of accents y'know (cockney) and after spending some time basically saying about vowel sounds, it all seemed to be going well ... but the the Yorkshire "a" slipped in and we had a mix of class, laff, baff, chance, dance, etc etc. Well it was first rehearsal but....this is why I wondered if there are any cds or audio clips anyway we could get hold of as it really would make a huge difference. Or basically it's going to be getting hold of Oscar Wilde films at the library/video shop and things like Jeeves and Wooster (anyone remember that?)

I am glad you like the topic!

Louise

For determined DIY types, I have a 4-page list of book + audio tape packs which are held by the Somerset Performing Arts Library, borrowable by anyone locally or requestable (and thereby potentially purchasable or borrowable on inter-library loan) at your own local library. This lists international accents including regional American plus regional UK.

I can copy by e-mail file. If required (and I may live to regret offering this...), please e-mail *not here* but direct to:

rdtaylor@somerset.gov.uk

Regards,

Roger

Hi Louise,
If you use Oscar Wilde/Jeeves & Wooster or in the extreme case Noel Coward, this would be what's known as "heightened RP" (that plummy posh accent)

True RP is far more neutral. My natural accent is not far from RP, coming originally from Berkshire, although it now has some influence from London and Lancashire!

Jon

Log in Jon.... *giggle*.

I find that I had to get a normal spoken "neutral" accent frst before I was able to start doing other accents...

i.e. get rid of my Scottish one (or as best I could) and then start "bending" the voice to others... Start with easy ones...

Don't try and jump right in to a "hard" accent, get a soft one first i.e. "Take The High Road" Scottish before getting a "Glasgow" accent.

Here's some tips of programs to watch and MORE to the point "LISTEN". Yes watch also, many accents have body language quirks that go with them or facial expressions. i.e. "West Country Farmer" looks a bit gormless (not that they truely do, it's the stereotype most people thrust upon them, and we are talking stereotypes...

American Trailer Park Southren - Jerry Springer.

Yorkshire - Heartbeat.

Soft Scottish - Take The High Road

Anymore anyone?

You can also listen to local radio for the area you're interested in. In general you get local people on it.

Thanks, George (you Winker!)

Ian Paisley for Northern Ireland, Patrick Kielty for Dublin.

Dorset is quite an easy one to start with.

Orlando

We cast an Aussie called Brad Dalrymple (you may have seen him on Blind Date just before Xmas) as Mr Noakes in Arcadia. We were really worried about his accent at first, but over rehearsals it kind of toned itself down and became less Australian and more English. We never did any special work with him (none of us have the expertise!!!), it just kind of happened. Many smaller groups (like us) are desperate for new blood, and I'm surprised to hear you've been turned down for parts just because of your accent. That's rather short-sighted in my opinion.


Rgds....

Alex Waddington
The Arcadia Players
Bradford, West Yorkshire

I think TV is the best voice coach available. To do accents, I have found that a character with an unusual or uniques voice in his or her notionality is the best to mimic. For example, if you have to study for a very loud, confident American as I am for 42nd Street, the voice of Al Jolson is quite good. First I started to mimic his singing voice and then I used that tone for the speaking parts.

For an Irish voice, anyone from 'The Commitments' are great to mimic and for an English 'posh' voice I agree with the Carry On films or any English musical such as My Fair Lady.

Once you got the mimic to a level you are comfortable with, you can then try to adapt it to make it your own character.

Hope this helps.

AHHH one thing to remember...

What your EAR hears is NOT always what other people's ears hear...

ALWAYS get someone else to listen to you before auditions and help.

Even if it's over the phone...

Even listening to yourself on tape isn't a good thing...

Living in Skegness there is a whole transient melting pot of British accents.

If I've got an accent I'm having trouble with I get a friend, colleague or mild aquaintance to tape the lines, I learn them in their accent and when I have them down I then start to "Feel" what the words mean and bring in the characterisation.

I suppose it's like when people have a "ear for music"... Some people just can't do accents where others find it quite easy...

I've seen some accents, esp in Panto, not happen till the person puts on the costume and then suddenly to everyones surprise it happens...

Getting into the part and feeling the part is just as important as feeling the accent...

I also find that if I have a few sentences which are quite good in a certain accent, I can then get a feel (as the last post) for others and can then chatter away in that accent with ease...

When people are playing a role with an accent, they should do an enormous amount of homework on it. People do tend to forget that directors are there to direct, and everyone should be contributing.

When playing a Welsh girl, I had a lot of trouble so asked around until I found a friend whose wife was Welsh. She helped me for one hour, explaining the lilt and speed of the words, and I can say anything with a Welsh accent now - and that was 10 years ago!

The man who played my husband in the show refused to ask for help, refused my list of notes I'd been given, and played the whole thing night after night in George's Bombay Welsh - to the amusement of the audience and the hair-pulling of the director.

Grrrr, it's not that hard to do - and I'd never tried any accents before.

It's a bit like the term "American accent" - don't people realise there are hundreds, and they need the right one? Research, work, practice - that's the answer. And if you can find one, you really can't beat a voice coach!

You shouldn't listen to someone and try to copy their words and pronunciation - you should get to the root of the vocal tones and work from there. So that if you are thrown by a wrong line on stage, you can escape from it IN THE CORRECT ACCENT - and you'll get away with it, believe me!

Amateur seem to be the only section that worry about accents - Nearly all the Broadway productions. Where accents are needed, carry on in there American accents & don?t worry about it
- it is better to achieve a good accent individually -
but if you can?t! At least think about the risk of sounding forced & false - Be natural & neutral

Whea aye hinney!

Toi Toi Toi Chookas

Joe

Off Topic:

Joe, I can't e-mail or PM you asyou are not registered (or logged in!). Are you the son of Ted McCabe of West Drayton?

Robin

Slightly off topic anecdote - but worth mentioning since it refers to accents

Worked on a show that whose lead was an American exchange student - the role she played required an American accent (lucky that). The review in the local rag singled her out for criticism of having a false accent (not sounding American enough!)

Now apart from the humour it does highlight the fact that people perceive that an accent should sound a certain way whether it actually does or not and so no matter how hard you try you can't win.

It also shows that some writers for local rags are stupid and should be removed from the gene pool......

I've heard and seen this before, when Americans playing Americans get bad reviews o their accents...

I think it's because we (uk) have a idea of the "typical American accent" which is usually the loud mouth yank... (no offence intended) which most people try and copy on stage.

When people hear a normal American accent it's not "strong" enough...

I did Little Shop Of Horrors one, and there's was a New Yorker in the audience, she came up to me after and asked what I (a New Yorker also) was doing over here... LOL... Got the shock of her life when I replied in my Scottish accent...

I think American accents are so difficult to get just right. The only one I have any success with is deep South (from playing a whore in Best Little Whorehouse in Texas) and that's a bit dodgy. And yet most regional English accents cause me no problems at all. But then I've never had to do any other American accents so maybe I'll will come through when I need to.

A friend of mine who was at stage school a few years ago was asked to come in with a speech prepared in three different Texan accents, Texas being so large that a variety of accents can be heard there amongst locals. There are literally hundreds of American accents.

But then we've all seen American films where every "English" accent is the old wartime newsreader type of accent, haven't we?

On Tv I recently tried to watch ?J & H? the musical closing performance on Broadway. Staring David (what?s his name?) - you know the one that runs up & down the beach holding an orange floaty & also holds conversations with a car? ?J&H? being set in London in the late 1800?s,You would expect at least english accents! No way only for a few members of the chorus attempting to sing with a Cockney accent - which was more like a the scratching of finger nails on a chalk board. The rest had 'All American' accents from various regions. This show did 2003 performances on Broadway, so they must have had good houses! The support Lead was a male Afro-American playing the part of a Doctor. Which was unheard of at that time in Londons Society. You would think the Broadway critics would have made mice meat of the show - but apparently not - they loved it?. Which possibly makes the point of "if your performance has to be accented incorrectly - so long as you do it in American - or to them a neutral accent. We have a lot of Pohms here, who don?t suffer any problems with like the Australian living Leeds. So I wouldn?t let that worry him. I spent a lot of time & money, a while ago, ensuring our cast of Ockers got coached in the various accents, where the characters accents were script particular City?s in America for A Chorus Line but we were still criticised for having the wrong City accents. So now I don?t worry about it. They all have differing views on what a particular regional accent should be. For sure they will never build a monument or put up a statue in memory of any theatrical critic.
On another note - Sorry! Anne-Marie, I will keep my "light threads" in the right Apparelers section in future.
Unfortunetly or fortunetly ROBIN. Iam a Geordie & not related to your friend & yes! I am registed - I think? but certified I'm not sure about?

Toi Toi Toi Chookas
Joe

Oh Joe, you've just cheered up my morning with a fantastic typo - "making mice meat" ....

Thank you!

He's a Geordie Helen..... It wasn't a Typo.... They talk like that.. *wink*

Accents are one thing I've never really worked at, though perhaps I should, it seems it might certainly be worth my while, though I do do a quite good cockney accent, mainly because I was born in London and grew up in the East End, although I don't talk like that normally!!!

Another anusing point, local AmDram group did a panto and one acter was supposed to be reading a letter in a German accent (taking off the character that wrote it) One audience member said, "Are you supposed to be Welsh?" Though that may just have been to wind him up. The Character who wrote the letter was very good, he sounded just like a German friend of mine!!

Still on accents, but going off at a tangent a bit.....

This Sunday I'm auditioning around 60 people for my next show. I've given them a chunk of dialogue to learn, and told them I expect to hear it in at least 3 different accents. I just thought this might be fun for me (director) as well as the fact that I want every character to have a different accent.

You'd think I'd asked them to fly to the moon!!!! Honestly.....actors!!

oh, I'll let you know how they did too!

Anne-Marie, does everyone have to sing in the play??

QUOTE (Ryano @ Feb 13 2003, 12:07 AM)

Anne-Marie, does everyone have to sing in the play??

No us tetchies are allowed to grunt (occasionally)

On A-M's behalf (cos she's at work with no internet conection heheh) It's a musical so everyone sings - The 60 people are going for 9 roles (double cast to give 18 a chance) so competition is hot

How's your singing voice Ryano??

Martin, What kinda accents are we looking for here?

QUOTE (George @ Feb 13 2003, 9:27 AM)

Martin, What kinda accents are we looking for here?

Austrailian, Texan, Nice American, German, Welsh could be good, Irish too - The good thing about this musical is that there are no set accents for the characters (with the exception of the cowboy)

Could even get away with UK regional dialects Geordie, Liverpudlian, "Northern" "Yuppie" etc

Wanna go??

Go on dare ya contact Anne-Marie - after all the auditions aren't till Sunday and she isn't stressed out at all with people leaving it to the last minute for audition pieces???

Damn.. I can't... I got too many projects open at the moment and now an other show to work on..

I'm learning to play the Sax though.... Just in case...

QUOTE (Martin @ Feb 13 2003, 9:15 AM)

How's your singing voice Ryano??

Do you know when you get two cats fighting and at the same time someone runs their nails down a blackboard whilst you are sucking a lemon and chewing silver foil and then the dog start whining because it wants to go outside? Well, my singing voice is not quite as good as that.

Yours is better than mine Ryano, and I get away with it..

You get away with a lot of things George!

Well, boys. I guess you're both in my show then - your voices sound perfect.

(Hey, this is amateur theatre, and aren't men who are willing to go on stage accepted at any price?)

Oh, forgot - I've got 20 strong male voices auditioning. Bummer, eh?

YES!!!!!! AT LAST!!!!!! COMPETITION!!!!!!!!

Want me to Audition anyway Anne-Marie?
Just to raise the level!!!!!



I'm not saying I'm good....
I'm saying I'm great.... *wink*

Bash it... This thread an't big enough for my ego..

(and for those you do know me, you'll know it's all a front... )

I've read all these posts and you all sound exactly the same ... so I think you are all lying!

QUOTE (Dennis B Goode @ Feb 14 2003, 11:04 AM)

I've read all these posts and you all sound exactly the same ... so I think you are all lying!

Doh! We've been sussed!

DAmn...

I am Ryano.... I am Anne-Marie.... I am... Helen!!!!!!!

*cough cough*

I'm..... *groan* Martin...

caught... It's a fair cop...

QUOTE (George @ Feb 14 2003, 11:14 AM)

DAmn... I am Ryano.... I am Anne-Marie.... I am... Helen!!!!!!! *cough cough* I'm..... *groan* Martin... caught... It's a fair cop...

NO I'M SPARTACUS!

What's a little green veg got to do with it?

I'm Brian, and so's my wife ....

No, you're talking about an abacus!